Old Stained Glass Lamp Shade With Lion & Snake

[NKW1963]

Why do it on a lamp that is unidentifiable, because there is NO ONE that can cast doubt upon the authenticity for sure.

Java, I don't know about this statement.......You have cast plenty of doubt! I guess Im confused why everyone just points out all the negatives and none of the positives. Guess I have a lot to learn in the world of stained glass......

[Javahut]

In an old lamp, an original old lamp, there are no areas where doubt can be cast.

In windows, it is a totally different program of matt painting, cleaning away areas to highlight and add light diffusion, done on larger pieces, fired in a kiln to a temperature where the vitreous paints become part of the glass being treated.  It is not done when the glass is created. 
The texture of your glass in the lamp is an old heavy granite texture, it is put in when the glass is rolled, either by a textured roller or texture in the table, as is Kokomo done.
The crud has collected between the texture, if it looks like scribbling so be it, but it is NOT permanent to the glass.

Someone took on a project to create a lamp, ran it thru an auction and made some money. Period.  There are no doubts in my mind on this.  If I am wrong, then so be it. I will listen to anyone that can refute my reasoning.  THat lamp was made up of DUffner parts, the shade was created to match the base, and adapted to fit the Duffner hardware.  From your photos, if someone had brought that in my studio and asked me I would tell them it is "a nice lamp by nobody special."  Enjoy it for what it is.

[NKW1963]

Java, You obviously are very experienced and know what you are talking about. Maybe the photos show enough detail, maybe they don't. You were pretty sure that all the paint and shoe polish would come off when I sprayed it with scrubbing bubbles but that didn't happen. It may be a newer lamp made to look old. I am enjoying it for what it is but its not something I can just let be. I paid 5000 for the lamp and it was appraised at 750 by someone online. It was guaranteed by the auctioneer to be old , not modern. Is it worth 5000 to me if it is a modern lamp? Maybe.....Its not like I can run out to the stores or go online and order one just like it for 750. It is obviously hand made not a machine produced lamp. I think that estimate is a joke. If there is only one of something regardless of the artist , I would think that fact alone would add to the value. I challenge anyone to find me this lamp for 750.....Because I would absolutely love to have a pair!

[Vic Rothman]

It was guaranteed by the auctioneer to be old , not modern.

You've said that your lamp was guaranteed old. Did they actually put a date on it? Just wondering

[Javahut]

If you like the lamp well enough to keep it, then do so. If you don't, take it back, tell the auctioneer it is NOT old, and let teh burden of proof be on him.  Who does his authenticating?  I am curious as to who the auctioneer is.  There are plenty of knowledgeable dealers on the east coast that will be able to offer up their opinion. 

There is no way I would pay $5000 for any lamp unless I knew what I was buying.

and a great deal of the crud did come off with the scrubbing bubbles, and if it were lacquered over the colorant, that will make it harder to come off, but it will.

Keep in mind, it is not in my hands, I have not seen it other than from your photos.  I have stressed that from the first post. 

If you look hard enough you will find someone that will agree with you, and your right, it is worth more than $750, maybe $1200.  but depends on the selling situation.

[NKW1963]

Java, Thanks and I do appreciate all your input. I have a appointment for next month. I am not overly optimistic that it is old as in 100 years old after listening to the different opinions. I gave it another good cleaning today. Im not out to screw anyone and if I got screwed than so be it. I do love the lamp and it is handcrafted and I know there isn't another one like it. So I am going to keep it regardless of how the appraisal turns out. I do know there was at least 10 people willing to pay over 4000 and a handful that was willing to pay almost 5000 for it on the particular day that I bought it. I do love it for what it is! My house in designed around my trip to Africa and other antiques. I would love for it to be old but I think I can be happy with it just being unique if thats the way it turns out. Thanks again!

[NKW1963]

Java, I took the lamp to Skinners today ( In the middle of a snowstorm) to have it appraised. I was told the glass in the shade was definitely old glass with the exception of the part at the top . She said that was added at a later date.The lady I spoke to thinks it was originally a hanging or floor lamp but without a signature she can't say whether it is 100 years old or 40 years old. She said the glass was most likely glass from old stained glass windows . She said whoever told me that no lions were ever done on old stained glass lamps was wrong. She said it could be possible that it was british made, or that it could have been commissioned by someone to have it made. She said it had some features of the the more well known artist but none of them ever did any painting on the glass as this one has with the lion and that the glass they used was better glass, that it all matched or something like that. . She said it could have been made in the 70's but there was really no way of knowing without the documentation. The part that holds the bulbs was definitely US made which we already knew that. She doesn't think 5000 was that much to pay for a handmade stain glass lamp and doesn't think I got hurt on the price. She said its not a 50,000 lamp which I knew that already. She said if it was made in the 70's that we would never know because the ones who made them will not admit to it. But without a doubt it is old glass that you would most likely find in old stained glass windows with the exception of the top two rings. She all so said that they would sell it at auction if I wanted but would have to list it differently than the previous auctioneer. They can't guarantee that it was made 100 years ago or 40.

So Im happy with the results. Whoever made it made a unique lamp. Im not 100% sure I would paid that much had I known the two rings at the top were added later but then again I loved the lamp so I might have.

[NKW1963]

She all so said the glass rattled like old glass to. She said the turquoise colored glass was very common in old stained glass windows. She thought the lead work (not the ring part) was done very nice, but did say she knew of a few from the 70's that did really nice work.

[Javahut]

So not far off from what was mentioned, and only with photography to go by.
Did she mention if the shade were copper plated under the patina on the older part of the solder work?  I am totally discounting the aperature rings, as what she had to say is what I had suspected.  A competant craftsman could touch that up to match the lead around it so that it would not be so obvious. would add to its appearance also.

I did find my auction catalog of where you bought it from, I thought the picture was familiar, but it did take me a while to find it!

I hope you enjoy the shade, if you find yourself coming to MI bring it along, at some point in time it will need some work at the aperature ring where it sits on the base support, there is nothing in that ring to hold it together. So keep an eye on that as you dust it occasionally, take the top cap off and look where the parts come together, solder alone will not hold that for long, it may begin to spread.

Glad you are enjoying it!!

[NKW1963]

Thanks, and I have noticed where it is starting to spread. And no she didn't mention if the shade was copper plated. If I ever get to Michigan I will look you up.......Thanks!